# Is meat natural? > Michael Huemer, _Dialogues on Ethical Vegetarianism_, Day 2 - - Eating meat is natural! People have done it for all of history. We have teeth adapted for chewing meat, see? (points to canines) […] - You’re a big fan of naturalness, are you? - Sure . . . sometimes. Sometimes I like to follow nature. - Those hot dogs that you enjoy: do you know how many unnatural ingredients they stick in those things? - So maybe I should give up the hot dogs. But other meat products are more natural. - What do you mean by “natural”? - You know, meat-eating follows our instincts. We evolved to do it. It’s what our ancestors have always done. - Our ancestors didn’t run factory farms. - Yeah, but they ate meat, and we need factory farms today in order to provide the amount of meat we want to eat at a reasonable price. - Our ancestors also did some other things that I bet you wouldn’t approve of. Slavery, wars of conquest, oppression of women, torture . . . - Okay, scratch the point about ancestors. But it’s still natural because it follows our instincts and we evolved to do it. - Do you think that everything that’s natural is good? - Well, not necessarily good per se . . . - But at least okay? Is everything that’s natural something that’s okay? - Sure. - You know, cancer is natural. So are earthquakes, hurricanes . . . . - Okay, those things are bad. But I’m just talking about behavior. Behaviors that are natural are okay. - I think war is natural too. - How could that be natural? - Well, people have been doing it for all of human history. That’s some evidence that it’s natural for humans, isn’t it? Just as eating meat is natural for us? Primitive tribes make war even more than we do. There seems to be some sort of human instinct to conquer and dominate other people. - I don’t see how an instinct for war could evolve – wars are so destructive. - According to one theory, men in primitive tribes would attack a neighboring tribe to kill the neighboring tribe’s men and kidnap and rape its women. In our evolutionary past, the men who succeeded in doing this sort of thing tended to leave behind more offspring than peaceful men who stayed at home. They passed on their genes for aggressive behavior. That’s how the instinct for war evolved. - I don’t know that I want to buy into that. That’s a very cynical and nasty theory. - Yeah, it’s unpleasant. But at least it’s a possible explanation of war, right? - I guess it’s possible. - So here’s my question: would you say that if that theory is correct, then war is good? - I’m pretty sure that war is bad. - But if the theory I described is correct, then war is natural. So then it would have to be good, right? - Well, I guess not everything natural is necessarily good. <style>#doc ul li:nth-of-type(2n):after,#doc ul li:nth-of-type(2n):before{content:"";position:absolute;bottom:0;border-bottom-left-radius:30px}#doc ul{background-color:#fff;list-style-type:none;padding:initial initial 50px;margin-left:40px;margin-right:40px;margin-top:20px}#doc ul li:before{content:""!important;margin:0}#doc ul li{margin-top:1em;border-radius:20px;-moz-border-radius:20px;-webkit-border-radius:20px 20px 20px 20px;padding:20px;max-width:400px;display:table;line-height:1.25em;position:relative;overflow-wrap:break-word;-webkit-border-radius:20px 20px 20px 20px}#doc ul li:nth-of-type(odd){background:#e5e5ea;text-shadow:1px 1px 0 #f3f3f4;margin-left:80px;margin-right:auto}#doc ul li:nth-of-type(2n){color:#fff;text-shadow:1px 1px 0 #1b96fc;background-color:#39a1f9;margin-left:auto;margin-right:80px}#doc ul li:nth-of-type(odd):before{content:"";position:absolute;z-index:0;bottom:0;left:-20px;height:40px;width:40px;background:#e5e5ea;border-bottom-right-radius:30px}#doc ul li:nth-of-type(odd):after{content:"";position:absolute;z-index:1;bottom:0;left:-20px;width:20px;height:40px;background:#fff;border-bottom-right-radius:30px}#doc ul li:nth-of-type(2n):before{z-index:0;right:-20px;height:40px;width:40px;background:fixed #39a1f9}#doc ul li:nth-of-type(2n):after{z-index:1;right:-21px;width:21px;height:41px;background:#fff}#doc ul li:empty{display:none}</style>